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4K views 44 replies 11 participants last post by  Damfino 
#1 ·
I'm seeing some strange behavior from Bella today with her buckling, Benjamin. Any time he gets his head near hers she will butt him. Not very roughly, but enough to push him away. His belly is full and she's letting him nurse, but I'm just a bit worried about this. We disbudded Benjamin yesterday and she's been a bit put off by the smell of his head, but he's been nursing so I figured it wasn't a big deal, but now I'm not so sure. Is this something to be concerned about?
 
#5 ·
Luna was unsure of Molly at first but after a day or so she outright rejected her. I'd just keep a close eye. Like I said, every doe is different. I've had other does act like nothing happened and others who took it slow...it's a wait and see thing. I hope it's all good for little Ben though. How's Arwen?

When's Prim due? Isn't it really soon?
 
#7 · (Edited)
Yes I did, but maybe I could have done it more.

Luna was unsure of Molly at first but after a day or so she outright rejected her. I'd just keep a close eye. Like I said, every doe is different. I've had other does act like nothing happened and others who took it slow...it's a wait and see thing. I hope it's all good for little Ben though. How's Arwen?

When's Prim due? Isn't it really soon?
"Arwen's" :lolgoat: doing great. She hasn't been disbudded yet, and I think that might be helping Bella.

Prims on day 149. I went to check on her overnight last night because it was really cold and I wasn't sure if her ligs were softening, but nothing's happened yet. I'm going to get some pictures of her over on my kidding thread.
 
#8 ·
I’ve got one who will reject her kids after disbudding, but it is an immediate reaction and she’s not gently butting. For her, we tie her up for about 24 hrs after a kid is disbudded. The tie is long enough so she can eat, drink, and lay down, but short enough so the kid can get out of the way if she starts getting nasty. The kid can still nurse, and she’s usually accepted them within 12-24 hrs of being tied. We also spray their heads with blue kote and alushield to help block the smell. I’ve since read about using lochia from the doe and putting that on the kids head so it smells like her kid again. I’m going to try that this year for my doe.
 
#10 ·
I've got one who will reject her kids after disbudding, but it is an immediate reaction and she's not gently butting. For her, we tie her up for about 24 hrs after a kid is disbudded. The tie is long enough so she can eat, drink, and lay down, but short enough so the kid can get out of the way if she starts getting nasty. The kid can still nurse, and she's usually accepted them within 12-24 hrs of being tied. We also spray their heads with blue kote and alushield to help block the smell. I've since read about using lochia from the doe and putting that on the kids head so it smells like her kid again. I'm going to try that this year for my doe.
So you're planning to save some of her afterbirth discharge (Lochia) to rub on the kids head after you've disbudded him?
Interesting concept but sounds unsanitary to me. I'll be interested to hear more.
 
#9 ·
She's still letting Benjamin drink, but I still saw some of the same un-motherly behavior today. I'm going to inspect his head tomorrow and see if I can shave off any burnt hair that might be there. Ugh, this is so nerve wracking. I hope this doesn't happen with her doeling too.
 
#13 ·
After you disbud, give the kid back rump first, so the first thing mom smells is her kid's rear end. Then stick him under her at her udder.

I try and grab kids to disbud when they first wake up from a nap and are hungry. After the disbud, they are real eager to eat. The mom only smells the rear end, so she doesn't realize his head may be different.
 
#16 ·
After you disbud, give the kid back rump first, so the first thing mom smells is her kid's rear end. Then stick him under her at her udder.

I try and grab kids to disbud when they first wake up from a nap and are hungry. After the disbud, they are real eager to eat. The mom only smells the rear end, so she doesn't realize his head may be different.
I actually did present him butt first. I think if I hadn't he would have been full on rejected.
 
#17 ·
I had a first freshener who was low on our goat-em pole, friendless, and tried to pull rank on other does' babies before kidding herself who was dumb about her own kid and wanted to spar with her kid. She was happy to continue feeding the kid, but was playing rough. I scolded her soundly the first time I saw it, and the lightbulb finally clicked and luckily she stopped. Not exactly the same situation, but thought I'd mention it since yours is a FF, too.
 
#18 ·
Thanks @singinggoatgirl, I appreciate all the advice I can get. I'm just so confused about the situation. I saw her this morning acting like she didn't want her babies to drink, even her doeling, but then again the babies weren't trying very hard. They also seemed to be driving her nuts trying to jump on her while she was eating hay so maybe she just doesn't like to take any crap? Then this afternoon I saw both babies drinking long, so I don't know what to think. Maybe because she's the herd queen she's not used to having her personal space violated.

I wonder if I should start babies on a bottle just in case. I do not want to pull them even if she flat out rejects them. I would rather do a, tie Bella up and let them drink type of thing, but if the babies still need milk overnight, it would probably be easier for me to bring them inside for night time and bottle feed them at night. Opinions?
 
#25 ·
I have tried teaching kids to take a bottle when they have a mother feeding them and it hasn't gone over very well. It just made the babies run away if I approached with a bottle in my hand!

Keep an eye on things and hopefully they'll resolve soon. Mama goats DO discipline their kids, but it's not the same as the partial rejection you're currently seeing. But when it comes to general discipline, if mama thinks her kids have had enough to drink, she'll walk away when they try to nurse, and if they are persistent she'll kick them in the face or even turn and bite their ears or tails. ("Mama said NO!") Mama goats are generally very indulgent for the first week or two ("You're so cute--you can climb on me, you can chew my ears, you can take a drink any time!"). But as the kids get bigger and more demanding, the good mothers start setting limits to their behavior.

My best mamas are also the best disciplinarians. They teach their kids boundaries and respect without ever going overboard. Those are the mamas whose teats never get bitten, whose udders never get butted, and who demand that their kids nurse them evenly on both sides. Some does adopt a particular stance that says "Come and get it!" and the kids learn to race over and grab a drink before mama walks off. They learn not to pester her for milk unless she's inviting them.

Good luck! I hope your mama fully takes her baby back soon! I haven't had one reject a kid after disbudding yet, and I hope I never encounter it.
 
#26 ·
Getting them on the bottle while they’re still nursing mama is an exercise in patience. The ones I’ve supplemented generally take multiple tries and it’s usually when they’re about 2 weeks old that they finally accept it (when they’re hungry and getting outcompetes at mama). The dams will regulate how much they drink at a time to keep the kids from overindulging.
 
#29 ·
Yep. I'm closing the top of the teat with my thumb and first finger and then following with my next two fingers. Then, I let go and try to do it again and nothing happens :shrug:. Is it maybe that I'm just trying it again too fast? I wasn't alternating teats, could that be it?
 
#30 ·
Your thumb and first finger act like a flood gate, you open them to let the dam open to fill the teat, then you close them so the milk doesn’t go back into the udder. Your middle ring and pinkie push the milk out the teat then you open the flood gate again, close off the milk in the teat and repeat.
Just remember...fill, close, squeeze , open ...Repeat.
I hope that made sense, I’m better at showing rather than describing.
 
#32 ·
@MellonFriend As everyone said trying to get a kid that has been on mom to take a bottle can sometimes be very hard. October 2019 I had a doe give birth to triplets. She was a very good mama but I noticed at about a week old her littlest one was getting skinny and being pushed away from the udder from the stronger ones so I decided I would try her on a bottle just to give her more. She would have none of it. She wanted mama. I tried for a week to get her to take the bottle as well as taking the others away so just she could drink. But she passed away anyway.
Another doe has taken to being very standoffish to her second set of twins for the second time. This is her third time with kids. She had a single girl her first kidding. Abandoned her twins the next year. she is finally beginning to come to terms that this set is hers and she can take care of them both. I think twins confuse her but I also have to keep her away from her first kid who is 3 years old because if I don't she will try to feed her instead. Yes, you read that right. she will try to feed her 3 year old and the 3 year old is always willing. Weird.
 
#36 ·
I just rewatched some milking videos and I think I'm just not doing it quite right. Her teats are smaller than those on the videos and I think I need to grip higher up on the teat. I also am ending up squirting the milk on my hand, and that just can't be right. :bonk:
 
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