[windsking55]

Apparently having a livestock gaurd dog isn't the answer to all critter problems. A wolf killed a Great Pyrenees and injured another in the same attack.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7000 ... s-say.html
A wolf was recently killed after killing sheep in northern Utah and there are two recent reports of wolves killing calves in Utah as well. All of this in a state with no wolves.

 

[Rod Meyer]

Yeah I hear ya. No wolfs here in Oregon either, right, they have already been spotted in northeastern and now central Oregon. First the librals out law no cougar hunting with dogs about 15 years ago and our deer and elk population has gone way down and now wolfs. Thats just great..I guess we can kiss our deer and elk hunting good bye for our kids and grand kids.

 

[ryorkies]

Rod: I totally agree. Our deer are disapearing.
And now the predators have nothing to eat.
So they are now eating, livestock and family pets.

The problem is they voted on it.
And it was the majority that won.
Guess where the majority lives.

In a city. I do not think City dwellers
should vote on stuff they know nothing
about. Just a photo of a cute kitty cat and
a cuddly teddy bear.

Also the tax payers now have to pay a goverment hunter
to get the problem animals. Where
before the hunters paid huge fees to
draw a once in a life time tag for cougars.
And bears no longer have a fear of humans.

Well I guess this could become a political.
So I will bow out. Before I get raked over the coals
again.

 

[jross]

I have always been skeptical about claims that all you need is a big bad dog (like a GP) to protect your goats from predators. A mountain lion killed and dragged off a neighbor's GP dog one winter. When the game dept brought a hunter with dogs to track the lion down it jumped one of the hunter's dogs and killed it too, before it was shot. It was an old lion that had found dogs, cats, chickens, goats, etc much easier to catch than deer. And wolves see dogs (and coyotes) as rivals. They will actively hunt and kill them.

 

[sanhestar]

Hello,

we have wolves in some remote areas of Germany for 7 or 8 years now. These areas are also frequented by large sheep herds. The herds are protected by electric fencing and AT LEAST two LGD's per herd (saw fotos of 4 to 5 dogs in a large herd).

 

[Rod Meyer]

Hello,

we have wolves in some remote areas of Germany for 7 or 8 years now. These areas are also frequented by large sheep herds. The herds are protected by electric fencing and AT LEAST two LGD's per herd (saw fotos of 4 to 5 dogs in a large herd).

Is the electric fencing protecting the wolfs from getting in or is the electric fence for protecting sheep from getting out. I would think the fence would need to be at least 6 ft. high to keep wolfs out.

Just curious

 

[sanhestar]

Hello,

the electric fence is meant to keep the wolves out. The recommendation is to make the fence about 4 ft. high and add moving "targets" to the top line. I can't translate the german word for it. Looks like crime scene tape but in red and white. If you tear this into long stripes and knot these to anything they will move and flap in the wind and make noise.

These stripes moving in the wind makes it harder for the wolves to estimate how high they have to jump.

The recommendation is to use electric netting fence, and also to fix the bottom wire (no voltage on that) to the ground (wolves can't work UNDER).

With this AND the LGDs the shepherds in Sachsen have quite good results in keeping wolves away from the sheep herds. But they also say that you have to be diligent with the fencing because if the wolves learn that they can navigate the fence, the protection is over.

 

[CASDOG1]

Pyrs are the most commonly killed LGD. They're the most commonly used & also the easiest to get. But like any well-known breed, they're also more likely to be of poor quality as they are all too often bred by people with no real idea of how to breed quality dogs. It's easy to get a Pyr, but it's hard to get a good Pyr. The other problem is most people don't use enough dogs for their predator load. If you have wolves, you need AT LEAST 6 dogs, & probably more, & you would be better off going with a more aggressive breed than a Pyr. Pyrs are from France & the predators in that geographical region are just not as large or aggressive as our North American gray wolves.

 

[CASDOG1]

Also, one dog is NEVER enough, regardless of what kinds of predators you're dealing with. They need to be able to sleep & take breaks, & one dog simply cannot be everywhere at once nor can he handle more than one predator at a time. On my not-quite-one acre with 2 goats & several chickens, I have 2 working dogs, & on my co-breeder's 17 acre farm with a dozen goats, 2 horses, 2 cattle, chickens, & guineas, she has 6 working dogs & we are looking for a 7th right now.

We have both flock guardians that stay with the stock (ours are Pyr/Anatolian crosses, although we are moving toward purebred Anatolians as we find we are having trouble finding Pyrs with good quality coats & strong enough temperaments) & perimeter guardians that patrol the boundaries (Central Asian Shepherds). Our primary predators are coyotes, feral or stray dog packs, bobcats, & black bears. Also there are feral hogs in our area, although thank goodness we have not personally had problems with those. If we had mountain lions or wolves or, dog forbid, grizzlies, we would probably have at least 50% more dogs, most likely more Central Asians since they are faster & more powerful, more aggressive fighters. Peace by overwhelming force!

LGDs are by far the most effective means of predator control, but they must be utilized PROPERLY, including selecting quality working dogs from quality working pedigrees, & raising them with proper training & socialization, as well as having enough dogs of the right breeds deployed in the right manner.

 

[farkus]

I actually work with and know the owner of the sheep and dogs that were attacked. The story is a little off. The other dog wasn't limping back licking its wounds at all. The sheep heard was riding up to the heard when he heard a big commotion. He hurried up to the heard to see a pack of wolves devouring the second dog. He rode as quick as he could and scared the wolves off to find the second dog half way eaten and still alive. That pack is easy to find the DWR just wont do anything about them. My uncle knows where their den is. Actually to be honest they run their territory on the north slope of the Uintas next to the mirror lake highway. And the attack happened right at Whitney Reservoir, which is where the rendezvous is suppose to be here shortly. So be very careful and watch your animals closely if you can at night. If not lock them up so they can't be touched.

 

[rifleman]

Having seen the wolves we have in our area, unless I'm able to teach my dogs to shoot, it's unlikely that even six or eight dogs of any type would do much against a determined pack. At best, I can only hope they'd wake me up so that I can do something. I live just far enough from the trees that I rarely see wolves venturing out as far as my property. They seem to like the cover of the trees, but that doesn't mean I'm in the clear, and certainly doesn't help my neighbors who live a couple miles closer to the forest. At least they're not protected in our area any more, and we have "shoot on sight" rules.

 

[southern-blue]

I live in southern Alabama and our biggest threat is the coyotes. The LARGE pack that we have migrates in and out of the area, but they have harassed the horses so much that they will now try and kill any dog on sight. It's sad, because we used to be able to ride the smaller dogs on the horses with us. There have also been reports of a cougar crossing just down the hill. That is worrisome, but as I have yet to have seen the feline, I won't worry to much about it. I have seen a large bob cat. It comes in and out of the yard, but we have plenty of game around for him to stay happy. When I first got the goats, I made sure that word went around so that the men that run their dogs would be aware. I made sure that they knew that THEY would be held responsible if their dogs killed any of my animals. As a result, they try and make sure that their dogs are caught before they run smack through the middle of my pens. As of yet, I haven't had any problems, but I have been looking into a guardian. I have considered some mini donkeys, llamas, and some type of dog. Just have to weigh out all the pros and cons.

 

[rifleman]

Don't take me too seriously on this one because I love my goats and would hate to ever intentionally put them in any danger, but I would almost pay money to see a coyote (I realize a pack of coyotes is different) go after my goats. My lead packer is a Kiko, and he's managed to fight off cougars on two occasions. On one occasion, there was blood on one of his horns, and blood on the cougar tracks that were leaving the area. I didn't manage to track the thing down, but I was pretty darn proud of him. When I encounter dogs on the trail, I'm actually more concerned about having to deal with someone's dead/injured dog than I am about the safety of my goats.

 

[Bwana Ken]

I think this story is a total fabrication, created by ignorant hillbillies just to make wolves look bad.

I'm an expert on wolves, having watched every show about them on Animal Planet and the National Geographic channel. I've also studied their behavior carefully during my frequent visits to our local city zoo. Wolves are gentle creatures that live mostly on mice and rabbits, and rarely on an old and dying deer or elk. They would never attack domestic livestock, and most certainly not cannibalize their blood-brother, the domestic dog! Shame on all of you for spreading these vicious lies!

 

[TDG-Farms]

LOL Ken, I was soooo ready to start bashing. Very subtle and well played

 

[rifleman]

Haha, nice Ken. You actually had my blood pressure rising for a minute there...

 

[Bwana Ken]

Ha! Glad you guys got the joke.

Seriously though, I don't want to give anyone the impression that I'm anti-wolf.

I think it's good that they've been reintroduced into their historical habitat. However, it's important to recognize that wolves are apex predators with no natural enemies. Like it or not, it is our (humans') responsibility to make sure that their numbers are controlled so they don't adversely affect their prey species. This is the same philosophy that has been used for many decades with regards to bears and cougars, and to a lesser extent coyotes. All three of those species are thriving despite being actively hunted by humans, and until recently (i.e. until the reintroduction of wolves) so were the deer, elk, and moose that they preyed upon.

I have witnessed first-hand the impact that the wolves have had upon the wild game populations in Idaho, and the fact that wolves are increasingly attacking domestic stock and the animals (i.e. dogs) that guard them is further proof that the wolves are finding it difficult to find enough to eat in the wild. Only after their numbers are brought down to a population that is both sustainable for them and their natural prey will we see the depleted big game populations begin to recover.

Wolves are beautiful animals and should be in our mountains and woods -- but not to the detriment of other species.

 

[squeakymcmurdo]

Wolves? In Wyoming? Naaaah, we just have little coyotes and "big coyotes"

I think if you're going to have a guard animal, you always need at least 2 even if you don't have much acreage or livestock, or wven if they're gaurding something other than lovestock. That way if one gets attacked it will have backup. And 2 huge dogs running at you barking is a lot scarier than 1. I'm sure a wolf, bear or cougar would think the same thing.

 

[Rex]

If you have wolves, you need AT LEAST 6 dogs, & probably more...

I understand your reasoning but 6 dogs to protect 3 or 4 goats? Not practical. The states need to step up and remove wolves close to human habitation. I understand that the Federal Government forced them on the states but someone has to take responsibility for the carnage.