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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Happy Monday everyone!

so...I had this whole worm issue with Buttercup about a month ago - http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f235/help-help-wormer-isnt-working-146724/

I wormed her using Ivomec 10 days apart 3 times now, 1cc per 33lbs. last time I wormed her was May 28 (that was the 3rd time), and she seems to be still wormy. I woke up to milk her this morning, and there was clumpy poop all over! more than the day before. her belly seemed larger than usual, but not like bloat. she ate her morning grain/alfalfa just fine. she gave me just over a litre of milk (she as at 3/4 litre last week...so giving more milk).

she did get grass yesterday...more than usual. could that be the culprit? it's also been very rainy and muddy (beginning of hurricane season)...does that have anything to do with it?

she's been picky with the alfalfa...aims for the oats, BOSS and peas and tries to eat around the alfalfa.

I've also been giving her herbals daily now just to help, garlic daily, and vit C. anything else I should give her to help her fight whatever she has? i'm at a loss....don't want to keep giving her chemical wormer every 10 days.

I wanted to get fecals, but of course she wouldn't poop for me this morning. then the vet is not overly reliable...I've given them poop before and they never sent it out for testing.

I'm at a total loss. her buckling has no worm issues, nor does my other dry doe. they get a mix of browse, grass, and some hay. Buttercup doesn't eat the hay...she's too good for that stuff! lol

sorry for the long post!
 

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Hi there,
What is the colour of Buttercups eye lids. They shouldn't be a pale pink or white if so she is anemic, and she has a type of blood sucking parasite. If she is very ill she should get a shot of Iron, vitamin B. Goats should have eyelids as the colour of salmon. The first year of raising goats I had a hard time with this as well. I had a few kids get coccidian as well, and I even lost a few. Tried what the vet said made it worst. They told me to try all these wormers... didn't work.... So then as my last resort of one of my doelings that was my bottle baby ( mother rejected her and she lived in the house with use, with a diapers) that died in my arms, I wanted revenge on this coccidian. So I stopped doing what the vets wanted me to do, so then I did a lot of research and I found Molly's Herbs. I swear by them! they saved my kids! I swear. You should buy them go to google and look up molly's herbal wormers and she has awesome products for just about for any thing. The nice thing about herbal wormers is that the parasites will not build immunity to it, they die and so don't there eggs and larva.
 

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Goat Feeder
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You can try orally at 1cc per 20lbs. Injectable gets better drug levels and slower kill. Orally gives a rapid kill.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well, the thing with the FAMACHA test is all my goats are fairly pale. I contribute that to low copper, but no bolus here nor do vets down here recognize copper deficiency in any of the goats down here (and everyone I've seen are all copper deficient).

I can find iron today. what's the dosage? and how would I administer?

with Molly's, i'm not sure of the import restrictions, and because i'm in Barbados, it maybe quite expensive to get it shipped, so I've taken to make my own based on the listed ingredients, and from researching other people's herbal mixes.

I think i'm going to go to the dept of Ag today and ask about importing copasure. if I find a few moments at work i'm also going to print off some info for head vets there so they can start process to informing local vets on copper requirements for goats (I've been laughed at in my face for asking for copper for goats).

maybe later i'll try to get some pictures of everyone's eyelids so you guys can see what i'm working with?
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You can try orally at 1cc per 20lbs. Injectable gets better drug levels and slower kill. Orally gives a rapid kill.
I forgot to say it was orally....1cc per 33lbs. it was kind of working the first 2 times, but this third time worms came back fairly quickly...

I really think it's lack of good quality minerals and especially copper that's making it worse for her, especially since she kidded on Apr 19. the other doe gets about the same stuff Buttercup gets, and she is fine! great pellety poop and no worm issues since bringing Buttercup to us in early Feb.

sigh!
 

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Goat Feeder
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It is about $15 for a 1LB First Class mail to Barbados. If you want some copper bolus and anything else LMK and I will ship it to you.
 

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Goat Feeder
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I forgot to say it was orally....1cc per 33lbs. it was kind of working the first 2 times, but this third time worms came back fairly quickly...

I really think it's lack of good quality minerals and especially copper that's making it worse for her, especially since she kidded on Apr 19. the other doe gets about the same stuff Buttercup gets, and she is fine! great pellety poop and no worm issues since bringing Buttercup to us in early Feb.

sigh!
Overdose is not common when using ivermectin. So people have all kinds of dose recomendations. Some common are for the injectable SQ 1cc per for 40lbs, SQ 1 cc per 33lbs, orally 1ml per 22lbs and 1ml per 20lbs. For Ivermectin drench is a minimum of 6ml per 25lbs.

Here are some links about parasite control
http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/hart2012_2.pdf

http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/sparks2013.pdf

Dosages for common drugs and wormers
http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/dawson2013.pdf
 

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I don't know much about it, but it sounds like they may have cocci. You really should try to get fecals done to be sure. You should look at the thread "I don't think the dewormer is deworming"
I started it because I was having similar problems with my goats, and I too thought maybe copper def. , but it was cocci.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
her poop doesn't look cocci-like. it just looks like normal poop, but soft. not dark brown, runny and smelly. then I saw some poop after she ate, and it was pellety, but misshapen. I've also been giving her cloves and cinnamon in her feed to help fight cocci if it's that.

Thanks GT...i'll see what's going on with importing these things (don't want them to destroy items when they get in if I don't have the proper import permits). if I don't find anyone that ships here, i'll let you know.
 

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her poop doesn't look cocci-like. it just looks like normal poop, but soft. not dark brown, runny and smelly. then I saw some poop after she ate, and it was pellety, but misshapen. I've also been giving her cloves and cinnamon in her feed to help fight cocci if it's that.
Well, my goats were acting normal, and their droppings were completely normal too, it was just that their eylids were pale and some of their coats were a little rough. Other than that, they were acting fine. But when the vet did the fecals they all had cocci! So I wouldn't rule it out. :D
He did say that sometimes they'll have it, and just kind of learn to cope with it anyway, but they still shoud be treated.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well, my goats were acting normal, and their droppings were completely normal too, it was just that their eylids were pale and some of their coats were a little rough. Other than that, they were acting fine. But when the vet did the fecals they all had cocci! So I wouldn't rule it out. :D
He did say that sometimes they'll have it, and just kind of learn to cope with it anyway, but they still shoud be treated.
alright alright!! I'll be on poop patrol in the morning, then pray the vet actually gets the fecal done. the worrisome thing about this vet i'm using is he's supposedly one of the best livestock vets on the island! not great for me so far!

I read somewhere that all living mammals have cocci (even us...eeew!), but our immune systems keep it down.
 

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I read somewhere that all living mammals have cocci (even us...eeew!), but our immune systems keep it down.
Yeah, yuk. Our vet said that too.
And hey, they might not have cocci! I'm just kind of freaked out about it because of our recent experience. We realized that in years past, most of our kids were stunted. They would grow for about four months, then just quit. We couldn't understand why, and now I'm thinking that they must've had it, because we always dewormer, but never knew about cocci. :blue: I'm really glad to be learning more all the time from this forum.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I would no longer have anymore goats if it weren't for this forum!

our buckling seems alright for now. he's only 6 weeks, but he's huge!

let's hope she poops for me in the morning!
 

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To get a good fecal sample: put on a disposable glove, insert two fingers and "grab some berries". bring fingers out and tuck into palm. roll glove off inside out and your berries will be inside the glove. This keeps them from getting contaminated when falling on ground.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
To get a good fecal sample: put on a disposable glove, insert two fingers and "grab some berries". bring fingers out and tuck into palm. roll glove off inside out and your berries will be inside the glove. This keeps them from getting contaminated when falling on ground.
great idea! doubt she'll let me do that..she's still a bit skittich.

i usually stand around and watch her behind like a pervert, and catch them as they fall..... lol
 

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great idea! doubt she'll let me do that..she's still a bit skittich.

i usually stand around and watch her behind like a pervert, and catch them as they fall..... lol
My sister and I had to do that the other day with all 9 of our goats.


Youknow how they always go as soon as you walk into the pen, like it's a goat greeting or something? Well, we figured that's what they'd do, so we went out about an hour before we were due at the vet (because they say you have to take the samples right away while they are fresh, or the worms will die and the test won't be accurate), thinking we had plenty of time. Well it took every second up till we were leaving to get 'em all, and we were still a little late.
Silly goats.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
she wouldn't poop for me AGAIN this morning...so i had to leave it. seems like the herbals are working though. her poop is more or less back to normal. only 2 clumps last night, but belly not wormy looking anymore. hopefully tomorrow she'll poop for me, and hopefully no more clump poop!
 

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Just in case you were worried about getting it before touching the ground, I don't think it matters too much, at least as long as its not covered in dirt or anything. We tried to catch ours going in the grass, which we did, and no complaints from the vet.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
yea...she didnt' poop for me at ALL this morning. just the old stuff lying around from the night before. you know how they get....if they know you need something to happen, they'll wait until you're gone to do it. sigh. such stinkers!
 

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How long we're you out there? It seems strange for it to take that long. :think: Is she getting (weird, this smiley face seems to have messed up the font) enough water and food? I know that's a dumb question, just wondering. Ours seem like they go all the time, and like I said before, it took about a hour to get samples from all nine. One of them didn't go until the very end, so it seem like they go at least once in a hours time? Just thinking out loud here.
 
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