Just out of curiosity, what kind of dog do you have?

 

I'm sorry that happened..uhhgg, darn dogs...sometimes they do the dumbest things!

I don't think that would be enough to get the doe to miscarry and the other one should have no trouble getting bred. They shouldn't be traumatized to long, but I don't think they're going to be very confortable around any dogs anytime soon. Give them some extra treats and loving so they feel a littler happier.

 

German shepherds. We actually have 3 and its just the one that got in this time. They are all tied up right now though, I'm paranoid. We gave them some love and an extra snack this evening, will give them a good going over tomorrow. I am worried that now she has figured out how to get in the pen, that she will do it again and again until she succeeds in killing one or both of them. Its not a pretty picture.

 

The only advice I can give ya is to get completely dog proof fencing or find a new home for either the dog or the goats...it could really end badly if the dog should get into the pen again.

 

KW that was unfortunately what I was thinking. We have a huge goat pen and it just has the field fence with hot line top and bottom. I'm afraid that given the incentive, she could just go right over the fence and into the goat pen again. I feel very lucky to have heard the noise when I did and investigated. Its a sound I NEVER want to hear again. Poor girls were screaming.

 

not to mention if babies get out of the fencing to explore.

I would give the girls some probiotics or some yogurt just to help with the stress - but they should be fine

 

not to mention if babies get out of the fencing to explore.

I would give the girls some probiotics or some yogurt just to help with the stress - but they should be fine

Do you think I should do it tonight, or can it wait until morning?

 

if you can give it tonight that would be best ... but if not tomorrow would still be good

 

oh and I have no doubt that if the babies got out to explore that I would have dead babies. The dogs are not kind to rabbits that come inside the fenced in area.

 

Great the goats don't like yogurt! Luckily I have some baby pro biotic here in powdered form that they ate just dressed on top of the grain. Oh, and i tried to get a pic of the damage but can't even see the one spot that was bleeding a little so it must not have been too bad.

 

My FIL has a german shepard-has been with goats since he was a baby- he got out and chewed the ears off of 3 of his boers!! I would have shot him on the spot if he were mine...However I do have a boxer-she is scared to death of the goats...Once a dog is able to get into the pen-It is chaos-Please be careful with the dogs..

 

I am seriously considering trying to rehome our dogs if we can and start from puppies. The real shame of it all is that the dogs are beautiful and are rescues. They were all three abandoned in town when we adopted them. As a result we have no history on them from prior to about 2 years ago.

 

That's to bad. What a frustrating situation for everyone.

 

The best thing you can do to keep those dogs from bouncing from home to home - probably eventually being euthanized because of the high prey drive - is to train them properly. I train dogs to herd and all of these dogs have a high instinct drive that has to be overcome. So, the very first thing I teach is a "leave it" cue. Teach the dog to sit, lay down, and stay. Then start the "leave it" cue. with the dog laying down set a treat a foot or so in front of them and hold your hand over it like you own it. Say LEAVE IT firmly. Gradually remove your hand, always ready to grab the food if the dog goes for it. Never let the dog grab the treat unless you say it's okay. After the dog has left the treat alone for about 15 seconds, reward by giving it to him. Then do 30 seconds, a minute, and so forth. Next have the dog sit, lay down, and stay. Set the treat down, give the leave it cue, and begin to walk away 1 step at a time. Again, don't let them have the treat on their own! Start by walking backwards and positioning the treat far enough away from the dog that you can react if he goes for it without your approval. Once he leaves it while you walk away go further and further away, hide behind a wall, etc. Make it a challenge. I do this in my kitchen which has two exits. By the time the dogs have the trick down I go out one door then walk around to the other.

So...once you have this cue down get a strong collar like a choke or pinch collar. I prefer pinch collars. Take your dog next to the goat pen and practice all of the cues - sit, down, stay, leave it. If your dog ever gets excited or focuses on the goats give a strong jerk on the leash (attached to the pinch collar) and say "leave it, down" until he does it. Once you have this well practiced outside of the pen and the dog doesn't act like he wants to pursue the goat - he acts focused on you - go inside the goat pen. Keep the dog on the leash with that pinch collar! Do all the cue again...sit...down...stay...leave it. Now, start applying the leave it cue to the goats. Walk closer to them with the dog, when he gets excited have him go down and leave it. Your leave it cue is now your "that's not for you to attack" cue. You've taught him not to "attack" his prey (the treat). Now apply it to the goat. This should be done in 15 minute lessons 2-3 times a day. Start from the beginning and work at your dogs learning pace. German shepherds are extremely intelligent and you should be able to progress quickly. Your goal should be to have the dog in the goat pen with you, no leash, and for the dog to listen to the leave it cue no matter what so he never attacks the goats. However, if you're not ever comfortable with that, don't attempt the off leash stage. Just do the rest. You dog will put 2 and 2 together and stop antagonizing the goats. Especially if you can catch him testing the fence and getting excited on the outside of the pen and giving a stern "leave it" once he knows the cue. He will soon understand that the excited prey behavior is what you want him to stop. For me the "leave it" cue is used when the dogs are in the goat pen with me - no leashes - and they begin to try to "herd" the group together and I want them to leave the goats where they are.

All of that aside...other good ideas include a stronger fence, more hot wire lines, containing the dogs, and rehomeing them.

 

Sorry about what happened! Is there anyway you can make your goat pen/pasture predator proof so as to keep out the dogs? Or fence in an area from which the dogs can't escape?

If you haven't already, start obedience training your dogs so they respond to voice cues. Behavior modification is a very realistic goal. I would begin by teaching your dogs basic obedience and deference using positive training methods.

As far as any stockdog training goes, first things (obedience and deference training) first. I would leave that up to a professional trainer, someone with experience who can instinct test your dogs and give you handling instruction. Not all dogs of herding breed have what it takes to work stock and those that do can easily be ruined by inappropriate handling (e.g. force or coercive techniques, choke 'n yank tactics). Likewise, your goats could be traumitized or worse if you haven't learned to control your dogs' behavior and handle them on stock.

Best wishes,

Deb Mc

 

That is the problem we have. They ARE in separate areas that we *thought* were predator proof with hot lines and everything. She responds and backs away if we call to her, she is a wonderfully obedient dog......... when we are there to correct her. When we are gone, its no holds barred unfortunately. We are now pretty much decided that she is going to need a new home and are looking around the area for someone who wants her. She is a great guard dog, just not so good with animals.

 

If dogs can get into your current pen, you might want to make a smaller area inside that pen out of cattle panels surrounding the goat house. That way you can lock the goats in a secure area at night or when you are away. Even if you rehome the dogs, you still want the goats to be safe from neighbor's dogs.

 

I had the same thing happen about four years ago...We had a dog with high prey drive, she was a rescue and I kick myself to this day for letting her stay!! She ATE one of our baby goats, the only thing left was one HOOF!!! I put her down right then and there, I will never have a high prey drive dog here again!! It broke my heart!!!
I am sorry your dogs are causing you troubles, but yes, I agree either the goats or dogs, it's not fair to either to have both!!

 

I had the same thing happen about four years ago...We had a dog with high prey drive, she was a rescue and I kick myself to this day for letting her stay!! She ATE one of our baby goats, the only thing left was one HOOF!!! I put her down right then and there, I will never have a high prey drive dog here again!! It broke my heart!!!
I am sorry your dogs are causing you troubles, but yes, I agree either the goats or dogs, it's not fair to either to have both!!

I completely agree. When we first got our dogs, one of the rules that we agreed upon was....If the dogs ever showed aggression towards us, our kids or animals we'd put them down. I don't really think it's fair passing a high prey animal onto someone else...even if you do let the new owners know about the dogs "bad habits."

 

Herding drive is derived from prey drive which is why most herding breeds have high prey drives - a desireable trait and an absolute *must* in working stockdogs. A stockdog without a high prey drive is like a car without an engine. It doesn't work.

In other words, prey drive is not the problem. The problem is lack of control or proper training on the owner or handler's behalf. The way I see it is, if you don't have the time, energy, know-how or skill to train a high prey drive dog, then you shouldn't bring one home. And I think that's the real issue at hand: folks not doing their homework in selecting a breed that fits their needs and their lifestyle. Sadly, selection is more often based on physical characteristics or how the dog looks.

I don't mean to offend anyone. I just feel it's important to correct the misconception here that "high prey drive" is the problem, for it ain't.

Deb Mc

 

Believe it or not Deb, I agree with you! I don't have the time to try and break this dog's habit of chasing the animals. We did get them after they were several years old and did try some training but it just doesn't "take." they are models of behavior when we are out there but the second our back is turned, they revert. We are currently looking for a new owner for the dog that got in the goat pen, she is on a lead 24/7 now. I don't like doing that to her, but I need my sanity too. These 3 dogs were all strays together when we adopted them, and we got them way before we had animals so had no way of knowing how they would behave until after we got them. Our neighbor wanted the dog at first but she has goats as well and I told her I couldn't in good conscience give her a dog that was going to cause havoc. She understood, thankfully.

 

Believe it or not Deb, I agree with you! I don't have the time to try and break this dog's habit of chasing the animals. We did get them after they were several years old and did try some training but it just doesn't "take."

I do understand your situation. I have two cattle dogs. The female is very talented, couldn't ask for a better choredog. The male, OTOH, has a run-away prey drive. His herding call name name is "Torpedo" because that's exactly how he heels. Both dogs took stockdog training lessons with me as their handler from a professional trainer, the best IMO. Yet the outcome was not the same and that could be due to various factors including genetics. My female came from active working lines and has natural talent and endless versatility. She's amazing. The male, well, he's still my #1 snuggle buddy.

In a way it's kinda' sad. Because my male has the drive, he wants to work and do chores w/me. Of course, I can't allow that but have come up w/a compromise: an alternative job he *can* do, one he can be rewarded for. For example, when my female and I are going in the animal yards to do chores, I have my male dog walk "back" from the gate and "sit". Once we get inside, I call him to the closed gate, and once again have him "sit" or "down" for a treat. Within a short while, he started offering those behaviors on his own so now I don't even need to cue him, although I do continue to randomly reward him w/treats for doing so. The result is a dog that respects gates and does not to try to rush them or break into our animal yards. And this was accomplished without use of punishment or aversives. All positive and everyone wins.

Any professional trainer will say that management always fails. While that is true, there's always the exception and with enough structure, committment and consistent practice, such measures can be successful long term. All our animals (waterfowl, poultry, goats) are kept in predator-proof yards/habitats (6) and we always make sure there's at least 1 permanent barrier in place to protect them from my male dog. We've only had one accidental encounter since we put those measures in place and that was due to miniature Silky drake squeezing through a tiny hole (apparently gnawed into the hardware cloth lining the fencing by a wild bunny or squirrel overnight) and confronting my male dog in the barnyard breezeway, an area my dog is allowed to use. He latched on and killed the drake before I even knew what was happening - not his fault, it was mine. Something I could have prevented? Not really. So, yes, even the most seemingly foolproof management can fail. But for me, rehoming is not an option.

Good luck finding your girl a new home that's a good fit.

Deb Mc

 

Our goats/chickens are in a permanent fixed fencing yard, the dog just discovered (at the same time I did unfortunately) that the ice had grounded out the electric line making the line, that we have run outside the fence to keep the dogs from digging, cold. So she was able to squeeze through what should have been an in-penetrable space between the gate and its post. Not a lot I guess that I could have done to prevent it. Still working on getting a new fence charger.... in the mean time she is on a lead so that I can sleep at night without straining to hear the sound of the goats crying. ::sigh::

 

I hate to say it but it might be best to re-home her. Maybe to someone that does not have other animals.

 

i wood have killed dog as quick as i could have got my gun . witch is on my hip at all time . no question ask.