Sorry you are having so many problems. Unfortunately the answer is yes to goats being jerks.

 

I feel your pain - keeping up with the ever-changing pecking order seems like an impossible task sometimes... just when you think you've found the perfect groups of 'pen pals' all around, the tiniest thing changes the whole dynamic. Then, of course, we doubt ourselves and agonize over whether or not to invoke referee status and switch it all up all over again.

 

I have the same problem with my herd queen. I had one herd queen which was mean to all the goats so I sold her and then the new herd queen just picks on Rosita constantly! It’s so frustrating and for five does, they have a huge pen and around a 10 ft long hay feeder that gets filled but I still have to feed them in three different spots or else Rosita doesn’t get to eat. She is very timid so she never fights back either.

 

The hierarchy inside of a herd can be brutal when circumstances arise that either changes or challenges the already established status quo. There may be a need to provide separate areas for feed and/or hay to insure everyone is getting enough nutrition if they are competing for food. Things could settle down with time once the newness of being incorporated runs its course.

 

Yeah goat pecking orders are rather fluid. The time they change the most is after kidding. Wait until you see ear biting. Pure Lamachas with their tiny ears can be the worse about it because other goats find it hard to bite their ears.

But I will say when they lose a horn it is very tramatic for the goat, and can upset the pecking order. The herd queen lost her horns and she went from herd queen down to number 3 with her daughter being number 2.

Horn/no horn doesn't seem to make much difference. The herd queen and Beatrice (the number 3 goat) neither has horns still are fighting it out. Goats without horns like to point their ears forward like mock horns.

If I can moderate the fighting I will among my milkers as I dont want then to injure each other which they will do.

One of the ways you can moderate some of the fighting is to make sure the goats can't see each other when they eat. They get very jealous of the lower goats eating and will knock the snot out of them. Pretty soon everyone learns the bully goats cannot protect every feeding station and they go to the "unprotected" feeding station.

Males can be the worse as they love to showoff to the girls. I saw one of my smaller bucks throw a similar sized buck 3 feet in the air. That got my attention too, because even though he is friendly to me, he likes me to scratch his horn roots, I don't want him ever to take a dislike to me!

He is my most handsome buck and acts like the the herd sire (he aint) and as brave as he appears he isn't. I saw him retreat to the paddock when a fish splashed after some prey.

But whatever the herd pecking order is right now, it will change after your does kid and that is normal.

 

Okay thanks everyone for calming me down. Y'all have talked me down from issues like this before. 😅 Goat psychology isn't my best class, so I tend to get a bit dramatic when I see things like this happen. I just want them to all have a peaceful life without having to look over their shoulders constantly for if the bully is coming. But I guess that's not how goat life is.

I've made sure there are plenty of places to get to feed and water and currently at night they are all being locked in a barn with plenty of space, but by the looks of things no space would be large enough to stop the ones who are looking for trouble. I'm going to be concerned about my smaller barns which I alternate to in the summer. If this kind of bullying keeps up, I'll probably have to change something because there's no way my smaller barns are going to accommodate this kind of behavior.

Yeah goat pecking orders are rather fluid. The time they change the most is after kidding. Wait until you see ear biting. Pure Lamachas with their tiny ears can be the worse about it because other goats find it hard to bite their ears.

But I will say when they lose a horn it is very tramatic for the goat, and can upset the pecking order. The herd queen lost her horns and she went from herd queen down to number 3 with her daughter being number 2.

Horn/no horn doesn't seem to make much difference. The herd queen and Beatrice (the number 3 goat) neither has horns still are fighting it out. Goats without horns like to point their ears forward like mock horns.

If I can moderate the fighting I will among my milkers as I dont want then to injure each other which they will do.

One of the ways you can moderate some of the fighting is to make sure the goats can't see each other when they eat. They get very jealous of the lower goats eating and will knock the snot out of them. Pretty soon everyone learns the bully goats cannot protect every feeding station and they go to the "unprotected" feeding station.

Males can be the worse as they love to showoff to the girls. I saw one of my smaller bucks throw a similar sized buck 3 feet in the air. That got my attention too, because even though he is friendly to me, he likes me to scratch his horn roots, I don't want him ever to take a dislike to me!

He is my most handsome buck and acts like the the herd sire (he aint) and as brave as he appears he isn't. I saw him retreat to the paddock when a fish splashed after some prey.

But whatever the herd pecking order is right now, it will change after your does kid and that is normal.

I've actually never had a doe be an ear biter, but I have one buck who does it occasionally. Oddly enough my bucks get along fantastically when it's not the rut. I'd be hard pressed to find a time when I look out the window and my boys are not eating together.

 

And don't feel sorry for the lower goats. I tried to help the lower goat feel more protected when eating and when a lower a goat lower in rank than he approached, he turned around and beat the snot out of him. There is no empathy among goats!

 

It can be difficult mostly because we put human emotions into their way of life. But its still important to be sure everyone is fed, watered and has shelter. This can be hard when other goats push at them or kick them out of the barn. I usually see some of this after i let a new mom out with the herd with her kids. That short period of even a few days apart can start a new pecking order stand off. I have never had issue with severe bullying thankfully. My solution is always to remove the bully or bullies. Pen them away for a week or so and then reintroduce them. See if the "time out" helped. Sometimes this shifts the boss order enough that everyone relaxes. Sometimes lol.

Best wishes

 

Anytime I introduce any one new. Even though they bern across the fence & see each other dailey. The Goat Drama begins. I watch the 1st day, let them be, just like you did. The 2nd day, whomever is bullying, I remove to outside the group. Yes she gets upset, runs up & down the fence line. Then that evening when I feed, i tie the bully to a fence post to feed. That really.jerks the bullies chain. Then after everyone has ate. I un tie the bully and watch. If the bully straightens up, she can stay. If not, shes penned up alone for the night. After that ,mine all get along.

 

Goats are terrible sometimes.

Anyone new, they pick on.

Sometimes out of the blue, one or two gang up on one.
I think she must of said something bad to one of the other does and the fight is on. Ugg 🥴

 

My herd is fairly peaceful right now as I sold my 2 biggest does who likes to throw their weight around. What I did before tho, I’d have to shut them out of my feeding pen u til everyone had a chance to eat and then I’d let them come in and clean up.

i know once kidding starts and everyone has their days away in their bonding stall, their will be some hierarchy testing.

I have the big hoop house, and different smaller shelter consisting of 3 IBC totes facing inward with a covered area between them, an upside down pickup bed set on rail road ties, and also shelters at both ends of the goat (feeding) pen. I know some does will still want to keep their kids separated from the herd and have their own space. So the shelter options might all end up being used, even with my reduced herd size.

 

Yeah in my alternate pasture I'd love to get some smaller shelters going. The lack of flat land makes it tough to throw something together. 🤔 I'm going to have to start thinking about that.

 

Oh wow I thought I had a problem I bought a new doe who is supposedly bred, as a companion for my loan wether whose brother passed away a couple months ago they both have separate pens with an access to each other, have not fought but want nothing to do with each other. All I can say from experiencing it with chickens is it could be the worst thing you've ever seen and a week later it's like none of the fighting has ever happened.... Unfortunately like the other said you might have to find means so the other ones could eat here and there, or tie the mean ones up during feeding time.

 

That's no fun at all! Wouldn't it be nice if goats could just be one big, happy family?

It sounds like you need more shelters. I would look at using IBC totes. They're relatively inexpensive, and usually two goats will comfortably share one. Then, when there's bullying, the goats getting bullied will have somewhere safe to hide and bed down away from the others. Unless you have to do so for security reasons, I would not lock them up at night. If you have to lock them up, would there be a way to partition the barn so you can separate out the goats that get along and pen them together ? I find that the worst bullying happens in enclosed spaces, so personally, I try to avoid closing the herd into tight spaces as much as possible, so the goats that are low on the pecking order always have a way to escape. This reduces the stress for them.

I bet they will settle down in time. They're just riled up because you added the other young goats back into the mix.

 

I do think it's likely that I overreacted and things aren't as bad as they seem. I saw a lot healthier interactions going on yesterday and so I think it's possible that I haven't really given them a chance to settle into their new normal.

That's no fun at all! Wouldn't it be nice if goats could just be one big, happy family?

It sounds like you need more shelters. I would look at using IBC totes. They're relatively inexpensive, and usually two goats will comfortably share one. Then, when there's bullying, the goats getting bullied will have somewhere safe to hide and bed down away from the others. Unless you have to do so for security reasons, I would not lock them up at night. If you have to lock them up, would there be a way to partition the barn so you can separate out the goats that get along and pen them together ? I find that the worst bullying happens in enclosed spaces, so personally, I try to avoid closing the herd into tight spaces as much as possible, so the goats that are low on the pecking order always have a way to escape. This reduces the stress for them.

I bet they will settle down in time. They're just riled up because you added the other young goats back into the mix.

I lock up for security reasons. I wish I didn't have to, but we are too close to neighbors to have out LGDs outside barking all night, so they get shut in the barn too. I used to not lock up the goats, but then we saw a coyote outside the fence about twenty feet from where my bucks were, so then I started 😬. I do have the ability to partition my barn by closing my kidding stall, but with kidding coming round fast, I wanted to be sure they all understood how to live in the same space before they are forced to when I have a doe in the kidding stall.

I've always admired your IBC totes, so I may need to figure out a way to get them to work on my sloped land. Do your goats ever get on top of the totes? I could maybe put one under the porch of my barn, but it would have to be near a fence, so they'd be able to get out if they could get on top of them.

 

Yes lol

 

Yep 👍

 

I will add that with the hay next to it on the platform they were able to jump on top of it. I have since rethought that and will be making that into a lounging deck for them instead.

 

Yeah, I understand the concern about predators!
I do have a roof on one of my totes, because the goats jumped on that one. We just screwed metal roofing on to the frame, because the bucks were jumping up there. However, I have used other totes that didn't have roofs, and the goats didn't get on those. The bucks don't get on the one with roof, now.
Here's a photo of that one

Okay good to know. Thanks. Your boys look so happy in their little houses. 🥰

Here’s how I handled an IBC tote on a hill. I have a platform I built and mounted it to that. I have dwarfs so they are too short to jump on it. I turned it sideways so I could open the valve for ventilation and I have the rug that I can let down in the winter to help with drafts. The goats have learned to go through it.

That's really helpful to see, so thanks for that. I love their festive Christmas rug. 😄

 

Okay good to know. Thanks. Your boys look so happy in their little houses. 🥰


That's really helpful to see, so thanks for that. I love their festive Christmas rug. 😄

I actually picked it up this summer at goodwill, lol. It was cheap and they don’t care, lol. The rubber backing on the outside helps protect them from rain if it is blowing that way. I did drill a few holes on the bottom to help with drainage.

 

I always cut the bottom out of my totes and turn them upside down. It makes cleaning really easy because I can just tip them over and move them to a new spot and put new bedding in.

I have considered putting rugs on. I might give that a try!

 

I always cut the bottom out of my totes and turn them upside down. It makes cleaning really easy because I can just tip them over and move them to a new spot and put new bedding in.

I have considered putting rugs on. I might give that a try! View attachment 268748

Since I’m limited to locations I tried to BSs creative in regards to maintenance for one person. With only the small cutout, it’s really east to clean. Oddly enough, it only gets pooped or peed in when they won’t come out for rain. Otherwise, they just sleep in there.

 

Well I was definitely overreacting a bit. I think things are calming down already.

Here's a not so great video where you can see how Murphy feels about Mr. Moon, if you can stand how bad the quality is. Make sure you turn up the definition as far as it will go. The young ones have all been kicking it into high gear with zoomie sessions lately, which I was hoping to catch on camera, but other than Mr. Moon's smoothie moves they never got going.

 

Your one goat came over to say hi and say I see you have your camera out, I’ll be sure to ignore that and not do any cute antics for you 🤣
Glad everyone seems to be getting along!

 

There is some really great companionship vibes going on between them. Pleased to see they have settled into the hierarchy of becoming a blended herd. Good job from me to the cud chewing critters in that group.

 

Glad it is settling down for you.

 

I just saw this thread.
I agree goats can be awful to each other!
I am glad things have settled down so quickly!!

In my herd there is a lot of that going on, where higher uppers won’t necessarily allow lower ranking ones to be in their space. I have a small barn, but don’t want to get rid of any of the goats. I have it so that in the barn it’s two goats to a stall, with a feeder for each. Even the besties in my herd will send their friend away when it comes to food. Only two of my pairs will share hay peacefully.
Outside I have enough spots to eat for all. With all of that you wouldn’t think they are a happy herd, but I believe they are. They are always together. They each know their place and how to be. No one gets hurt, and no one is skinny. Goats… 🤷‍♀️

 

I just saw this thread.
I agree goats can be awful to each other!
I am glad things have settled down so quickly!!

In my herd there is a lot of that going on, where higher uppers won’t necessarily allow lower ranking ones to be in their space. I have a small barn, but don’t want to get rid of any of the goats. I have it so that in the barn it’s two goats to a stall, with a feeder for each. Even the besties in my herd will send their friend away when it comes to food. Only two of my pairs will share hay peacefully.
Outside I have enough spots to eat for all. With all of that you wouldn’t think they are a happy herd, but I believe they are. They are always together. They each know their place and how to be. No one gets hurt, and no one is skinny. Goats… 🤷‍♀️

Thank you for sharing your experience. It really helps to hear what kind of behavior other herds exhibit. I wish I had just a little more space for segregating, but currently I just don't have the ability. Maybe someday. Everyone's doing even better than they were with only occasional incidents. I think Mr. Moon especially is understanding that Murphy is no threat.

 

I wonder what Mr Moon will think of all the little ones arriving? I hope he doesn’t decide it’s his chance to get even for his time low on the totem pole!

 

Well he's being really good with Asher. Maybe it's because Prim is projecting huge protection vibes, but Moon, Louise, and Halo are actually being great with him. Mostly they just try to get away from him as fast as they can. 😄

 

Hopefully he’ll just be the fun uncle for them to play with eventually 😂

 

My herd of goats , I say they are like pirates! ARRGH MATEY! They follow a leader but are always plotting a mutiny. So I seperate mine in groups. The bucks of course are on their own. My females I attempt to keep them.in groups, they get along in. But preggos & new moms are just stuck together. Most are really good around wee ones. But thats why my wee ones are at least 3 days old before they are in the herd. They have a better understanding of mom and feeding schedule. Yes I always have a few wee ones who steal a drink or 2 from a preggo.