Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

Could be a copper, mineral, or selenium issue. Loose minerals available? When did he last get copper bolused or BoSe?

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

he got BoSe at 3 weeks old, never been bolused, free choice access to an 8% cattle mineral with both. He's been on this mineral since he was 6 weeks old along with both girls. Neither doe is showing any indications of weakened pasterns, which is why my first thought jumped to injury.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

How old is he? Sorry if I missed it.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

He will be a year old on the 21st of this month

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

I have know idea what might be at the bottom of this... nutrition seems likely... but I just feel like there must be some way to help stabilize it just for the time being. a brace of some sort? Also I know I've read that saanens are prone to pastern issues....
anyway good luck!
M.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

Also, just for reference, his sire's side had not had any issues with pasterns, and those goats are plain massive. Not so sure about his dam's side.

If it was nutritional, would it show up this quickly? He was absolutely fine last week, standing straight and running about like his usual self. This is something that has developed in less than a week.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

that's a point about the speed.. based on that I'd be guessing at something mechanical... like you suggested fence jumping....
M.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

is he CAE neg? (just ran across something online...)
M.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

Any way you could shave the hair so we can clearly see the top of the hoof? I saw this on another forum... Pics & all, let me go hunt up the link for you as I know they resolved the issue (and that goat had worse feet than you goat). Bo-Se would help, but I understand it's hard to come by...

Gonna go find that link....BRB

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

Here is the thread I saw on another forum.... 3 pages long, but it may be helpful & has before & after pictures....

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=21649.0

Hope it's ok to post another forum link, if not, mods feel free to delete this...

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

He has never been testedfor cae, but his dam tested negative. No joint or structural problems in either parent.

His feet have never been great, he grows them so quickly I often have to trim them twice a month. His last trim was about 2 weeks ago, and out was just a bit of overgrowth. He hasn't ever really had really deformed feet, and in those photos, the sole is pretty well lined up with the coronet band. If anything, hes got shorter toes than heels. Unfortunately, I'm not st home right now our I would be able to trim the hair.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

It looks to me like his feet need trimmed properly. The frogs are way too long allowing him to be off center and rock on the back of his feet. While trimming follow the natural ring line all along the hoof the frog should be trimmed to that level too. This condition can be corrected but will take knowledgeable trimming and a lot of it. From what I can tell the frog is nearly 1/2" too high so that makes the toes too long and with the frog growing that long and fat at the bottom it is splaying out his toes. White colored feet grow the fastest of all colors since they are soft they will not trim them selves very easily by breaking off. Feeding lots of corn will make them grow fast too. This type of trait will be passed on to his kids too. Just my experience.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

Oh I know out will be passed on. Hes a saanen. I'm not even sure black feet exist in that breed.

I thought it might have to do with pour trimming on my part (i will admit, I've never had to deal with feet growing this fast and it's absolutely possible that I screwed him up), but would it really break him down this quickly? Hes always looked like he stands decently on his feet. His heels have always been a misery to keep in check, if you look at his 2 month old photo on my site, even st that age he was more toe than heel. I cut the toes to the quick this afternoon and just tried to smooth the heel down.

Unfortunately for him, nobody around here seems to be good enough at trimming to even keep elf toes off their goats, do I'm kind of on my own.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

It takes time to learn how to trim hooves and with hand trimmers it is a chore. I would think about trading him for a different Buck. I'm not sure about the breed since I don't do Dairy but would think that if you can find one that was not foundered young like yours was that you have a better chance of keeping them trimmed. I have seen and have had goats like this that eventually can't walk and will walk around on their knees. The main thing is to take the frog down and get between his toes with the clippers and get them so they will close together, that alone will help pull the pastern back in line. Those tendons that run to his individual toe are being compromised because they are being forced inwardward, at right angles putting a kink in the straight pull the tendon needs to keep everything in line, jamming them together and making them weak, kind of like carpal tunnel. I used to be afraid I would take off too much and harm the goat, the same goes for under trimming by not taking off enough or in the wrong places you can alter the goats posture so as to effect its health. As a rule I don't need to trim any animals feet but once a year or 2, my buck I have trimmed 3 times in 2 years.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

That link I posted discusses how to trim this to fix.... The doe discussed in that link had her feet screw up fairly fast...

This may sound silly, but I have a tendency to buy fixer uppers & I've had to fix several bad feet.... I just bought a doe who was foundered & she will be an ongoing project (but thats a different story).

Anywho, for me it's hard to keep in mind what to trim when looking at the bottom of the foot..... So I put them on the stand, shave the hair around the feet, then, while standing flat, I take a sharpie & a square & draw a parallel line near the bottom of the hoof & use that as my guide so I trim level from heel to toe..... I've slowly got better at trimming & don't have to draw lines anymore, but until I got a knack for what I needed to do, it really helped (especially on badly mishapen feet). If you don't use a rasp, I'd get one so you can rasp him down as flat as possible. If you're handy with an angle grinder, grinding them down would be faster, but I prefer a hoof rasp.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

He's fine, just cut 1/4 inch off the heels, don't shorten the toe anymore and smooth the line to this new angle. He's just got overgrown heels that are letting him rock back with his weight because the bottom of the foot is too small from toe to heel. A sureform works really well to get excess heel down. One of my Saanens did the same thing. Now he's big enough that his weight keeps the heels from growing so fast.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

Ok so it's z relatively eat fix then. The minute I get home ill cut the jewel down and try to find a way to brace the pastern until he back to normal.

I have never had this kind of problem on a goat before, even that *insert swear* boer doe who wa diner than a bag of rocks...the worst she eve did was tip her whole leg to the outside bedside the inside toe on all 4 feet grew twice as fast.

Sideplaner-if this problem starts cropping up in his kids, he will most definitely be wethered, but his sire is a good 300lb and his heels are horrible, and he has yet to hyperextend his pastern. I dont believe it's founder, there hasn't been any kind of feed change that would have set it off. It might still be a possibility that I can't rule out

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

You shouldn't have to brace his pasterns, as soon as the heels are shortened enough he should pop right back up again. you can see in the second picture that the hairline to toe bottem is shorter than the hair line to heel bottem. His pasterns aren't weak, he's trimmed so that he's on the tips of his coffin bones with his foot flat, when he tries to level his foot it rocks back.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

You have been given great advice.

Its probably worth mentioning that the shape of the hind toes is different to the shape of the front toes - it looks to me like you've trimmed the back feet to the shape that the front ones should be - the hind ones should be a bit longer and shallower, more like a triangle.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

Ah bugger I dont think I made any sense there

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

I have had this happen with a huge buck and you want to square off the heel so its level but not take too much off...then you want to trim the toe so he starts to correct the stance..I do the same type of approach on horses...I do toe trims on my filly as she has long pasturns and I have to keep the toe trimmed so she doesn't roll back. You do want to take some off the heel but only half of what you would on the toe...it is very hard to explain on an post, I am sorry, but keep in mind you only want to square off the heel so it has a solid base (so he can't rock back) and the extra off the toe will force the stance to come forward. Very hard to describe without pictures, sorry.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

is this kind of what you're thinking? http://sites.google.com/site/2creeksgoa ... f-trimming ?
I can't remember where I found this image... but... from what it seems to say you should cut more of the toe and leave the heel.....

@sideplaner... what do you mean by the "frog" I know what it'd be on a horse but on a goat?
M.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

Alright-i am having out this morning to get him fixed up. But before I start hacking his feet off, the general consensus is to cut about1/4 inch off the heel and leave the toe, correct? His toes were cut down to the quick yesterday,i doubt I could get them much further. I do have a rasp, but it's a massive horse rasp that often takes off as much of my skin as it does the foot, but I will try marking it with a sharpie and rasping it down to an even point.

Sideplaner, out just occurred to me-what do you know about striped feet? It only just hit me that this foot has a big old black stripe straight down it-might be screwing up how it grows?

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

I may be wrong but I feel like taking more off the heels will just exacerbate the problem... I would at least ask a vet before you do anything drastic... but that's just me.... When I look at the photos closely it seems like the actually trimming looks pretty good and that it is something internal (tendon etc.) that is the issue. I think if he was supposed to be standing the way he is you'd make it easier by taking off heel... but since this isn't how it should be taking off heel just seems wrong... :shrug: ON the other hand I don't have any personal experience with this particular issue... Really I guess what I'm trying to say is be very careful....
Goodluck!
M.

 

Re: Broken down pasterns on a yearling? *pics/vid*

E well what I can do is clip the hair and wash the whole foot and let you guys take a look at that, BUT in order for that to work, you would just need to go to my photobucket account and look st them there. My phone cannot copy/paste, and I wrong have access to a computer until after I have left, and then what good does it do? But if someone wants to post them for me before I leave,i can get some advice while I'm out there and able to makechanges (seriously,i can't wait to get my car back and end this whole mess)