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This isn't meant to ruffle feathers...

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Discussion starter · #62 ·
"So the issue is not a scientific one, but a legal and political one. The CFIA cannot be allowed to look weak. Their decisions must be final. If a lot of farmers challenged them in court, causing delays, nothing much would get done."

Clearly pride goes before a fall...I would respect them more if they gathered all the facts and changed their orders than watch them stand and declare that they are right no matter what your lying eyes tell you. I wouldn't see it as weakness at all. It would actually make them appear more trustworthy.

And farmers should challenge them. They should have a say and should be able to defend themselves. And they should be able to do it without loosing all that they have as well. It's easy for government entities to fight citizens because they have unlimited resources from the citizens to fight them with.

It's kinda tough to know what the truth is when the farmers themselves aren't allowed to test their own animals. They just have to trust the government who wants to kill all their animals. The government, and apparently the courts, have their own agenda and it's not actually to protect anything but their power and money.
 
#63 · (Edited)
I am hardly the guy to defend the actions of the CFIA. It can certainly be argued that some of their regulations could be more flexible given various circumstances and it is certainly possible that not all contingencies were considered when regulations were crafted. But once you have a government department in charge of food safety, you have to give them the power to act, and swift action is often important where food safety is concerned.

It is not unlike police having the power to arrest. Certainly almost all people arrested are, at least legally speaking, innocent at the time of arrest, but resisting arrest is illegal in itself. Police could certainly not function if they could not arrest anyone unless they were proven guilty in court first.
 
Discussion starter · #64 ·
Mike at Capra Vista said:
I am hardly the guy to defend the actions of the CFIA. It can certainly be argued that some of their regulations could be more flexible given various circumstances and it is certainly possible that not all contingencies were considered when regulations were crafted. But once you have a government department in charge of food safety, you have to give them the power to act, and swift action is often important where food safety is concerned.

It is not unlike police having the power to arrest. Certainly almost all people arrested are, at least legally speaking, innocent at the time of arrest, but resisting arrest is illegal in itself. Police could certainly not function if they could not arrest anyone unless they were proven guilty in court first.
Click to expand...
But you don't arrest someone and give them the death penalty without a thorough investigation and presentation of evidence while also allowing the defendant to provide evidence of his innocence.

At first blush, the comparison of cops to government agencies seems sensible, but there's a lot of nuances here.

Why on earth wouldn't you want more evidence to prove that your kill order was necessary? Unless it's because you don't have the humility to admit when you may have made a mistake and more evidence may show that. Oh, that and it doesn't fit into your agenda.

If I've learned anything over the last few years, it's to question, question, question.

I grew up believing and trusting. The blinders are off.
 
#65 ·
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. I am merely trying to present the CFIA's point of view. I do not know if their approach is the best. No doubt there are improvements that can be made, but they do have to look at the larger picture with many different aspects than just one ostrich farm. What if not culling all infected flocks affects international trade worth billions?
Is immediately "depopulating" infected flocks the best solution to the problem of spreading avian flu? I have no idea. Apparently it has been decided internationally that it is.
If the CFIA find a flock with a positive flu test, what should be done. Wait? Do more tests? What if the second test is negative? Wait for 6 months to see if herd immunity comes into play?


"Why on earth wouldn't you want more evidence to prove that your kill order was necessary? "

To be fair, you have to look at the evidence available at the time the kill order was issued. Did they do the right thing at the time given what they knew at the time? What should they have done at the time?

Should allowances be made for certain species? Perhaps.


"If I've learned anything over the last few years, it's to question, question, question."

Absolutely! Always question.


"I grew up believing and trusting. The blinders are off."

Funny you say that, because if anything I grew up disbelieving and distrusting, which comes with its own set of issues.
 
Discussion starter · #66 ·
Mike at Capra Vista said:
I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. I am merely trying to present the CFIA's point of view. I do not know if their approach is the best. No doubt there are improvements that can be made, but they do have to look at the larger picture with many different aspects than just one ostrich farm. What if not culling all infected flocks affects international trade worth billions?
Is immediately "depopulating" infected flocks the best solution to the problem of spreading avian flu? I have no idea. Apparently it has been decided internationally that it is.
If the CFIA find a flock with a positive flu test, what should be done. Wait? Do more tests? What if the second test is negative? Wait for 6 months to see if herd immunity comes into play?


"Why on earth wouldn't you want more evidence to prove that your kill order was necessary? "

To be fair, you have to look at the evidence available at the time the kill order was issued. Did they do the right thing at the time given what they knew at the time? What should they have done at the time?

Should allowances be made for certain species? Perhaps.


"If I've learned anything over the last few years, it's to question, question, question."

Absolutely! Always question.


"I grew up believing and trusting. The blinders are off."

Funny you say that, because if anything I grew up disbelieving and distrusting, which comes with its own set of issues.
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I respect you, Mike. I appreciate your views and opinions. Thank you for your insight and sharing. I only say that because it's refreshing to talk to people you're not 100% with and still walk away with fondness.

There are many who question the validity of the test. Of course, they don't get traction because it goes against the narrative.

I don't know the answers either. The fact is that they really can't be sure either, but they like to put up a good front.
 
#69 ·
Ostrich Farm Loses Cull Appeal
Farm devastated by news that gives CFIA authority to kill flock of nearly 400

Despite being healthy for more than seven months, hundreds of ostriches will be killed following an avian influenza outbreak from last year.

Universal Ostrich Farm received the "devastating news that our final appeal was lost," spokesperson Katie Pasitney announced Aug. 21.

The Federal Court of Appeal ruled unanimously against the farm, following a hearing July 15.

Pasitney, whose mom co-owns the Edgewood farm, says that means at any moment, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA) "could come and kill our healthy ostriches."

In the meantime, the farm is opening its gates and welcomes anyone who would like to come and peacefully visit and film when CFIA does arrive.

"Bring your cameras. Bring your hearts. Bring your voices."

Pasitney says the flock of nearly 400 has been healthy for 219 days.

"The CFIA has not stepped foot on our farm in over five months, but still claims there is a threat here," she said, adding they were not allowed to test the ostriches themselves and were threatened with jail time if they did.

"These animals are not just livestock. They are living beings that have thrived against all odds. They are a symbol of resilience, of natural immunity, and of what’s possible when we stand up against broken policies that destroy life instead of protecting it."
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#74 · (Edited)
While ostrich supporters are said to be flocking to the farm, the Lawyer is working with Universal Ostrich Farms on an application to the Supreme Court of Canada for another stay of the cull, pending an application seeking leave to appeal. He acknowledged the threshold to have a case heard by the top court in Canada is high.
 
#77 ·
And so it continues ...

In a decision dated Saturday, the Federal Court of Appeal granted an interim stay until a stay motion "is decided on the basis of a full record."

The decision says a notice to cull the birds is "hereby stayed pending the disposition of the stay motion." The CFIA was given until Tuesday to respond to the motion.

The ostrich farm applied for stay of cull as it seeks appeal at Supreme Court of Canada.
 
#80 ·
littleheathens said:
There's always something more to do...what a waste of funds though. CA did not follow reasonable guidelines and that is blatantly obvious. I hope the farm is getting lots of support.
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No doubt a waste of money, but then most things involving the government wastes money. I'm still on the fence as to whether the guidelines pertaining to bird flu are reasonable. Apparently they follow international guidelines and have repercussions on international trade.
The farm is certainly getting plenty of support and international attention. Lots of people concerned about the animals and some concerned about the rights of farmers. There is the faction who think everything done by government is a conspiracy to keep the people in line.
Less reported is the group of local residents who hope the cull gets done already. They are afraid for their own livestock and even their own health.
 
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Chanceosunshine
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